Haste Chatter!

Lets Talk haste!

Since joining my new Guild Reawaken, I finally ran into a person I can chat with ingame about extensive moonkin theorycrafting. He brought up several good points which made me look at what we will be talking about today. Haste!

Moonkins love haste. Its like crack to us, but of course we like other stuff to. Its good to keep both even though (crit and Haste and not over stack one or the other). At the current point in the game, people are at 530-600 haste. Some people may not see how they do it, but others do. These people are also still dishing out some good damage. With Uldar around the corner, we need to start looking at the values again.

For those who don't know..the global cooldown for casters with no haste is 1.5 seconds. Haste can lower your global to 1 second. For Moonkin, 1 second starfires will make baby raptor jesus cry.

The basic haste forumal is as follows:

New Casting Time = (Base Casting Time)/(1 + (% Spell Haste / 100))

At level 80, we need 32.79 points of haste per 1%. A few points to keep in mind are as follows:

Moonkin have 6% haste from talents which: 32.79x6%=196.74

The Haste Cap/Global Cooldown Cap = 1639.5 (for 50%) based off Wow Wiki
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So, lets just say Uldar gear gives us around 700 haste. If we decide to say that bloodlust can be converted into haste, then it would become 987.3 haste rating.

So we'd take that and end up with this:

700+ 983.7= 1683.7

Adding a bit more into it, we will add our hidden haste from talents which is 6%..Remember, it takes 32.79 for 1% of haste, so it comes out to 196.74. So even with bloodlust, haste, and your hidden haste; you will have 1880.44 which is 200+ haste over the cap. This will cause clipping issues. Starfire before a crit will be 1.5 seconds. Nature's grace doesn't add itself from what I know if you are already at the cap (due to clipping issues)

So, with our hidden haste, Normal Haste, Bloodlust, and speed potion you would have the following:

196.74+983.7+700+500= 2380.4

Now, that is IF Bloodlust acted like that type of mechanic, but it doesn't.

So lets go on to another part. If your desired casting time is 1.5 seconds (starfire) then:

"desired casting time" = 1.5 seconds, ((3/1.5)-1)*32.79*100

So, you'd need a 3279 haste rating to yank SF down to clip the GCD not 16**

Since the cap on 1 second is 16** from Wow Wiki..we must keep in mind that it would only lower Starfire to a 2 second cast (which we see when we just get bloodlust..and it gets lower with haste pot)

So, going off these stats, A haste pot is still good during a bloodlust. If you are curious...

So to get SF to have a cast of exactly 1 second, it would be 6558 haste, assuming WoWWiki's formula is correct.
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So thank you to all the moonkins at the Repository for sitting down and chatting with me about this math. As well as Badeggplant and Atavus.

Ok, so now what?

For those who have been following, I have been on a mission to prove with IFF worked with FFF. Ghostcrawler probably has gotten tired of me, but I was on a mission and now, my mission is complete!

I went ahead and looked at this in game, and I am happy to report that I was wrong. Any Faerie Fire should allow you to get the 3% crit, even if you didn't cast it. So the tooltip should probably read: Your Faerie Fire and Feral Faerie Fire spells also increase the chance the target will be hit by spell attacks by 3%, and increase the critical strike chance of your damage spells by 3% on targets afflicted by [anyone's] Faerie Fire or Feral Faerie Fire. I don't always have the game right in front of me when I am reading forums (most often I am on a painfully topical beach sipping mai tais) so I try not to guess unless I am pretty sure about something. I was pretty sure about this, but I was wrong. It happens. There are like 15,000 spells in the game.

So, there you have it. At this moment all of our testing has come to a close on if it works or not. Ghostcrawler has now stated it works after his two other posts. As long as he says it, people will stop bugging me about it now.

Behind the Scene:

Yes, there was stuff going on during these tests. Our 'friendly' neighborhood Wisprunner didn't believe that IFF worked with FFF. He was a nay sayer to it all and even when I gave him tests it was still a yes or no to him, even with it pointing to yes. So, for several months we had gone back and forth on this, on and off, always trying to prove eachother wrong.

So for the record...

I WIN WISP

Ok, that felt better. For those who don't know us personally, we have no grudges with eachother, it was more or less a friendly challenge and I won. Yes, I will keep saying it Wisp because I know you read this blog! I win, I win, I win! :)

He already stated he owes me big for this, there are so many things he could do. But I rather not limit him. So if you are a reader and would love to suggest something, just leave a message in a comment. This way we can give him a list of what all he could do for the repay.

Back to the issue at hand however, now what? GC originally stated that the talent shouldn't work and if it does..its a bug. However, people think otherwise. With it working and now proven by a blue ( which everyone and their mother wanted to see ) will it get fixed? Why should it? Its only 3% and its not like we're topping the damage charts as number one over pure dps classes are we? What are your thoughts? Don't be afraid to leave them in a comment..I'd love to answer them as they come!

Well, thats it for now, but I would love to mention I made Graylo's blog...GO ME! :D

More Improved FF Testing

Update: Ghostcrawler responded to the question in regards to IMP FF working with FF

I am almost positive the talent is looking at your spells. So if you cast Wrath, it does a check to see if you also have FF up on the target.

The intent of the talent is to encourage you to cast Faerie Fire, compensating you a little for the fact that you are debuffing the target. It isn't intended to just be "here have some crit." The intent is that if you cast FF, even if the debuff is already on the mob, you are rewarded for it.

I suspect it isn't smart enough to detect Feral Faerie Fire now that it's a base spell, so we should probably fix the case of a Balance druid who casts FFF and then goes back to Wrath or whatever.

I am just guessing based on the way spells usually work. I did not try this myself so I could be wrong.

I will also admit that there are some inconsistencies currently in the game between whether you are supposed to apply a debuff again on a mob that already has it (because sometimes you get a "More Powerful Spell" error). This is something we're trying to clean up though.
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So its apparently a bug, but the game doesn't recognize it as such? Is there a way we could keep it? With all the replenishers in the raid, we have no mana issues. No reason to fix what isn't really broken..

Now back to your original viewing program!
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My first post ever in this blog (which is still on the front page) was talking about why not just take Imp FF for the 3% crit if you have the points left over? Well, even if you read the tooltip, its a tad bit confusing.

Improved Faerie Fire (Rank 3): Your Faerie Fire spell also increases the chance the target will be hit by spell attacks by 3%, and increases the critical strike chance of your damage spells by 3% on targets afflicted by Faerie Fire.

It requires your spell to be active on the boss for the 3% to hit, but as you read, it says it also increases your spell critical strike chance by 3% on targeted afflicted by Faerie Fire. So does that mean it doesn't need to be our own? From the wording, it sounds like it can be anyone's. But everyone is different when it comes to trying to understand the last sentence.

We did testing on this while it was in Beta. Bullocks had tested it and saw that is apparently worked off a Feral's FF. While he just kinda blurted it out, it made others think. Wisprunner who is another avid Moonkin Theorycrafter didn't believe it so stated there was no justification for taking 3/3 IMP FF unless you needed to make yourself and the raid hitcapped.

However, being the hard-head I am, I challenged Wisp. I provided the numbers, he did the math. Below are the numbers I presented him.

0 hit
2.66%Crit Rating (include 4% for my talent tree)
16 Bonus Damage
Casting Wrath 150 times for each test
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Test 1 - No FF - 150 casts, 11 crits, 7.3%
Test 2 - Feral FF on dummy - 150 casts, 15 crits, 10%
Test 3 - Moonkin FF on dummy - 150 casts, 11 crits, 7.3%
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While these tests are small, they still got people to think. Either way, Wisp took my numbers and began to crunch. Being that 3% is so hard to detect with the RNG, it was hard to get any real yes or no answer. However, his results pointed in the direction that yes...It works off Feral FF. A few others of course looked over the test results and have come to the same conclusion.

Wisp went as far as sending the numbers to a friend for a better conclusion( Some math major) which pointed to yes as well. I went as far as to petition a GM in the game and ask. After about 20 minutes talking back and forth about the talent and how playing a moonkin was like, he abandonded me for another 20 minutes before giving me an answer saying it was.

Now, usually..I would be like "Oh, I don't trust GM's. They know nothing about the game they are supposed to supervise." But this guy actually knew what I was talking about. I talked to him about the invisible buff to your haste which is Improved Moonkin form and Celestial Focus. He understood them all and responded to me in a fashion that would probably have made Wisp blush.

Either way, he stated as well that it worked. But people are still curious since numbers are pointing to yes but never giving a definate answer due to the way the numbers are layed. (Those wondering, its an infinite number, like 2.9x..it was for me when I did the math..so its never reaching the 3% qouta) So we are looking for GhostCrawler to be our friend and respond. However being how he is, GC has refused to respond to any questions in regards to this talent.

If you would like to join in our thread hoping to get a response from him, please feel free to respond asking for a straight answer in the read posted below. Until then, I will post the real math later on when Wisp wants to hand it over. I think hes trying to keep it away from me because I refuse to ever let it go. :)

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14133419591&postId=142730127776&sid=1#5

Thanks for reading!

Foofy, over and out!