Friday, February 6, 2009

Haste Chatter!

Lets Talk haste!

Since joining my new Guild Reawaken, I finally ran into a person I can chat with ingame about extensive moonkin theorycrafting. He brought up several good points which made me look at what we will be talking about today. Haste!

Moonkins love haste. Its like crack to us, but of course we like other stuff to. Its good to keep both even though (crit and Haste and not over stack one or the other). At the current point in the game, people are at 530-600 haste. Some people may not see how they do it, but others do. These people are also still dishing out some good damage. With Uldar around the corner, we need to start looking at the values again.

For those who don't know..the global cooldown for casters with no haste is 1.5 seconds. Haste can lower your global to 1 second. For Moonkin, 1 second starfires will make baby raptor jesus cry.

The basic haste forumal is as follows:

New Casting Time = (Base Casting Time)/(1 + (% Spell Haste / 100))

At level 80, we need 32.79 points of haste per 1%. A few points to keep in mind are as follows:

Moonkin have 6% haste from talents which: 32.79x6%=196.74

The Haste Cap/Global Cooldown Cap = 1639.5 (for 50%) based off Wow Wiki
So, lets just say Uldar gear gives us around 700 haste. If we decide to say that bloodlust can be converted into haste, then it would become 987.3 haste rating.

So we'd take that and end up with this:

700+ 983.7= 1683.7

Adding a bit more into it, we will add our hidden haste from talents which is 6%..Remember, it takes 32.79 for 1% of haste, so it comes out to 196.74. So even with bloodlust, haste, and your hidden haste; you will have 1880.44 which is 200+ haste over the cap. This will cause clipping issues. Starfire before a crit will be 1.5 seconds. Nature's grace doesn't add itself from what I know if you are already at the cap (due to clipping issues)

So, with our hidden haste, Normal Haste, Bloodlust, and speed potion you would have the following:

196.74+983.7+700+500= 2380.4

Now, that is IF Bloodlust acted like that type of mechanic, but it doesn't.

So lets go on to another part. If your desired casting time is 1.5 seconds (starfire) then:

"desired casting time" = 1.5 seconds, ((3/1.5)-1)*32.79*100

So, you'd need a 3279 haste rating to yank SF down to clip the GCD not 16**

Since the cap on 1 second is 16** from Wow Wiki..we must keep in mind that it would only lower Starfire to a 2 second cast (which we see when we just get bloodlust..and it gets lower with haste pot)

So, going off these stats, A haste pot is still good during a bloodlust. If you are curious...

So to get SF to have a cast of exactly 1 second, it would be 6558 haste, assuming WoWWiki's formula is correct.

So thank you to all the moonkins at the Repository for sitting down and chatting with me about this math. As well as Badeggplant and Atavus.


Cdin said...

Yea, there's really no such thing as to much haste unless your going oom or a diehard wrath user.

The funny thing about haste is that a lot of people seem to make it a much harder question then it is. If you have the mana for it then you pick it up. If you don't you look for more crit instead of haste. (that assumes SP is realtively constant).

There is really no reason to worry about Bloodlust or Potions of speed even if you do hit a 1 second cast time, since bloodlust and Pot'o Speeds only last 40 seconds and 15 seconds. You should always gear for whats best for the 4 or 5 minutes that you don't have the buff instad of the 15 or 40 seconds taht you do.


Foofy said...

Yeah, but this original discussion came up last night when chatting with a guild moonkin. He was curious on which is better, haste pot or Wild Magic. After chating, we began to look deeper into haste.

How much haste to to much?

As the numbers state, if you can get 6000 haste, then you have to much :P

jamie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jamie said...

Okay, from hours spent in ogg on the training dummies i think ideally, you should reside at around 650 haste in ulduar gear, and then bring your crit with talents and raid buffs (not counting eclipse) to around 42% then begin stacking spell power - hit capped of course.

And haste potion is definately more effective in a bloodlust, and in general rotations, but if you are not geared to a respectable crit level then i would definately suggest the wild magic, as this can really assist in your rotation kicking off with your eclipse :)

As an example my character is Mcbear (boulderfist-horde Eu) - probably one of 5 specs atm :P

But if you catch me in my moonkin gear it is no where near complete but with the meaxna trinket and the badge spell power trinket during a bloodlust i can push 7k+ single target dps - respectively raid buffed ofc.

But, some fights can be a bitch, and your wraths might decide not to proc eclipse, and by the time it proc's your trinkets have procced and are on the gcd, meaning that i can loose upto 2.5k dps...

Apart from best in slot items, just say a short prayer before your first wrath and hope EVERYTHING procs XD

With the 500 haste pot, my base haste of around 530 and the meaxna trinket that gives 500 puts me at the 1 second starfire cap, or just short - with those procs my single target dps = agro dead due to popping out near enough 1 second starfires that crit on average for 12.6k 25 man buffed, with spell power trinket proc these number change alot!

Anyways, i guess my talk is done with, been really bored at 6.30am whilst working a night shift Keep up the crafting!

John said...

I disagree with the assertion that haste pots are more effective during lust. The reason is precisely because haste is multiplicative. When you're multiplying a slower (larger) weapon speed number by a % (the haste buff), you get a higher amount of damage increase. When you multiply a faster (lower) weapon speed number by a % (the 2nd haste buff), you get a lower amount of damage increase. Follow the crude math below for an example.

Pretend your weapon speed is 2.0 and you do 3K DPS. Then over 55 seconds, you do the following damage:

Attack Speed = Original attack speed / [(haste buff 1*haste buff 2*etc/100) + 1]

Attack Speed with lust AND pot = 2.0 / 1.3 (lust) * 1.1525 (haste pot) = 1.3348 attack speed for 15 seconds.

THEN you have just lust for 25 seconds = 2.0 / 1.3 (lust) = 1.5385 for 25 seconds.

THEN you have normal speed for an addition 15 seconds. This all equates to a 66.5% DPS increase for 15 seconds (2 - 1.3348) + 46.2% DPS increase (2 - 1.5385) for 25 seconds + 0% DPS increase for 15 seconds.

Now do the math with 3K DPS per second:

Overall Damage = [((66.5% x 3000) + 3000) x 15] + [((46.2% x 3000) + 3000) x 25] + [((0% x 3000) + 3000) x 15] = 229,575 overall damage.

Now bear with me. We're now looking at DPS increase with JUST bloodlust, and then JUST a haste pot. This will come up to 55 seconds worth of damage, which is why we showed the amount of damage for 55 seconds in the above equations.

Weapon Speed w/ Lust = 2.0 / 1.3 = 1.5385 for 40 seconds

Weapon Speed w/ Haste Pot = 2.0 / 1.1525 = 1.7354 for 15 seconds.

This equates to a 46.2% damage increase (2 - 1.5385) for 40 seconds + a 26.4% damage increase (2 - 1.7354) for 15 seconds.

Overall Damage = [((46.2% x 3000) + 3000) x 40] + [((26.4% x 3000) + 3000] x 15] = 232,365.

229,575 vs. 232,365 if you stagger the buffs. The reason there is more damage from staggering can be seen right in the equation. You are getting a higher damage increase (26.4%) when multiplying 2.0 and the haste pot buff (15.25%) vs. multiplying the bloodlusted weapon speed 1.5385 with the hast epot buff (15.25%). You're taking 15.25% of 2 vs. 15.25% of 1.5385. Clearly the same percentage taken from a higher number is going to yield a higher number as a result. This final number represents the total DPS increase.